Faith or Lack of.

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Dretlin
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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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The issues I have lie in the old and the new. Most lie within the old.

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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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You can't "prove" faith or God, because neither are intangible. And there are so many other things that people can't prove or explain yet still believe. Which is why it is called faith.
Also people seem to blame religion for wars and arguments and what not, when it's the people that cause it. Most religions are based on the concept of goodness, but people with all their corruptness screw it up!

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Dretlin
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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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Revy the two hands wrote:You can't "prove" faith or God, because neither are intangible. And there are so many other things that people can't prove or explain yet still believe. Which is why it is called faith.
Also people seem to blame religion for wars and arguments and what not, when it's the people that cause it. Most religions are based on the concept of goodness, but people with all their corruptness screw it up!
People have motivations. Religion has and is one factor in to some peoples decisions or prejudices. Sectarian violence is not a thing of the past.

"Most religions"? That is far to vague to even comment on.

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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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"Religion is what kills innocent men women and children" - KJ52
"You dont have to be alive to make yourself relevant.And you dont have to be a good person to be a hero.You just have to know who you are and stay true to that.So Im going to keep fighting for people the only way I ever knew how"-Vriska Serket

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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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Just because people have a religion doesn't mean they don't have their own mind.

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Dretlin
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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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Revy the two hands wrote:Just because people have a religion doesn't mean they don't have their own mind.
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. "

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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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+:D.Ř.Ę.Ŧ.Ļ.Ĭ .N:+ wrote:
Revy the two hands wrote:Just because people have a religion doesn't mean they don't have their own mind.
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. "
Who is that from?
"You dont have to be alive to make yourself relevant.And you dont have to be a good person to be a hero.You just have to know who you are and stay true to that.So Im going to keep fighting for people the only way I ever knew how"-Vriska Serket

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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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SASSZAIN wrote:
+:D.Ř.Ę.Ŧ.Ļ.Ĭ .N:+ wrote:
Revy the two hands wrote:Just because people have a religion doesn't mean they don't have their own mind.
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. "
Who is that from?
A physicist named Steven Weinberg.

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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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This topic actually encouraged me to register..lol! It appears there are a lot of smart people on both sides of the debate ^__^

Faith is a strange concept. As children we are told not to be gullible, because others will take advantage of us, but when it comes to concepts of divinity we are supposed to open our minds (despite the fact that there are multiple people claiming to know the true god). My view of god is that either he is a terribly cynical individual who creates a book asking you to blindly follow him despite not offering any evidence to the contrary, or he is someone with a great sense of humor (or he doesn't exist at all but we won't go into that).

I think the faith thing is stressed a bit too much, and it leads people to be blind. I would appreciate it if more Christians actually read the good book instead of reading inspiring quotes of it from their ipad.

To my Atheist brethren: I was religious for a few years, so I know how religious people feel when you say their system of beliefs leads to baby eating (not good). I am sure that most Christians know that past civilizations used their god's name in the name of killing. It's perfectly reasonable to point out that organized religion can be dangerous because it gathers large amounts of like minded people together, but no one religious is ever going to stop because someone was a douche 1,000 years ago.

There are a lot better points against religion that don't offend the other side, such as the fact that the bible which is supposedly perfect was written by men, so we don't know how much they embellished to control the populace. There is also the question of why god (who is omnipotent) would tell people to have faith in HIS religion knowing other religions would later ask the same. And why would god allow men to translate his word when he could have a more direct route like having some angel descend and write it down, or write it on a piece of burnt toast.

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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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Soren Kerkegaard once said that true faith is characterized by passionate commitment, and faith is not only a matter of what we believe, but how we believe.

As your points on the bible, I asked myself that question. And found (thus far since I'm still reading the book) this. "The Gospels constitute-practically speaking-our only source of historical facts about Jesus, and they were written from 40 to 70 years after his death. Their authors drew on an oral tradition that disseminated stories about the deeds and words of Jesus in the form of sermons, catechetical and liturgical material. Mark was the first to cast this oral tradition in the form of a Gospel (a unique literary genre which he invented). His Gospel appeared shortly before the fall Jerusalem which occurred in the year 70. Some 10 years later, Matthew and Luke each produced a Gospel by using Mark's work plus a collection of the words of Jesus (often referred to by scholars as Q for Quelle source) and also some special material that each evangelist had at hand. Finally, at the turn of the century, the author known as John produced the Fourth Gospel, which differs considerably from the other 3 in a portrait of Jesus. "

It goes on to say that, "The Gospels were not meant to be a historical or biographical account of Jesus. They were written to convert unbelievers of faith in Jesus as the Messiah of God, risen and living now in his church and coming again to judge all men. Their authors did not deliberately invent or falsify facts about Jesus, but they were not primarily concerned with historical accuracy. They readily included material from the Christian communities' experience of the risen Jesus. Words for instance, were put in the mouth of Jesus and stories about him which, though not in the historical strict sense, nevertheless, in the minds of the evangelists, fittingly expressed the real meaning and intent of Jesus as faith had come to perceive him. For this reason, scholars have come to make a distinction between the Jesus of History and the Christ of faith."

As for the difference between the two, "scholars hold (as a general rule) that whatever cannot be deduced or explained from the Judaism of Jesus' time or from primitive Christianity should be ascribed to the Jesus of history"

The first actual form of the Bible was started around 382 AD by Jerome. Jerome knew Hebrew so he was commissioned by then-reigning Pope, Damasus to translate the Bible from the original languages. "Up to this point Christians had at their disposal a translation of the Bible called the Old Latin which in its Old Testament part was based not on the Hebrew original but on a Greek translation known as the Septuagint. This Old Latin version was in great state of disorder with many variations that had crept into the text. The Pope did not want a completely new translation but only wanted Jerome to sort out the various readings and establish a standard version based on comparison with the original languages." This took 20 years to complete. He soon though abandoned the idea of simply revising the existing translations of the Old Testament. He decided to start fresh from the Hebrew original and produce an entirely new translation."

However, Jerome ended up shaking the foundation of the faithful and was denounced throughout the Christian world (even Augustine found it uncalled for). However, his translation caught on and gradually achieved recognition as the standard or 'Vulgate,' Latin text of the Bible."
See 'A Concise History of the Catholic Church by Thomas Bokenkotter (1979) ISBN: 9780385130158
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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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Uta wrote: To my Atheist brethren: I was religious for a few years
As was I, and welcome!

Do you agree with any of that Athos?

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Re: Faith or Lack of.

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I do. I have heard some of the stuff I mentioned, but I never got the whole story.
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Re: Faith or Lack of.

Post by marcusslawrence »

Luck, rather than a faith or trust in God, not anyone connected with him. That's why people say it is not a religion. But that is because they honour and fear. Lucky by nature is capricious and volatile, since it is based on nothing more than changing circumstances.

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