Self-Pleasure a Sin?

[Jade_Steel_Hawk]

I think what you brought up in your last post is a common misconception from non-Christians regarding Christians. I know I can never be perfect, so what would the point be in trying for the unattainable? I just like being nice, helping people, and overall self-improvement. I'm not sure I would be this way if I wasn't a Christian. I hate to bring scripture into my posts because it's only valid if you take the Bible as truth. Well here goes anyway: Jesus lived and died for me. The least I can do in return is to do my best to make the world a better place.

Also, it's natural for humans to sin. It's in our nature. We have to learn how to be civilized.

[Dretlin]

I think what you brought up in your last post is a common misconception of non-Christians. I know I can never be perfect, so what would the point be in trying for the unattainable? I just like being nice, helping people, and overall self-improvement. I'm not sure I would be this way if I wasn't a Christian. I hate to bring scripture into my posts because it's only valid if you take the Bible as truth. Well here goes anyway: Jesus lived and died for me. The least I can do in return is to do my best to make the world a better place.

Also, it's natural for humans to sin. It's in our nature. We have to learn how to be civilized.

Christianity sets conditions so that everyone is sinning all the time. I find that profoundly wrong and part of indoctrination.

Even ideas such as Original Sin, are the shame of mankind. (I have strong opinions on that particular matter, I want to highlight that that issue is separate to my reply to your post.)

You shared a belief you have, I wish to do the same: I have no beliefs - none.

The topic Jesus is for a different thread, perhaps another time.

[Jade_Steel_Hawk]

What would life be like if everyone carried out their natural urges? We need guidelines.

I expressed my beliefs above to explain my mentality, not to bring them into a debate.

[Dretlin]

What would life be like if everyone carried out their natural urges? We need guidelines.

Morals are derived from reason - not divinity.

If everyone in the world practised or even celebrated self pleasure, I can see no wrong in that. It is important we embrace our biology, rather than stigmatizing it.

[Jade_Steel_Hawk]

One can argue both.

Self-pleasure with pornography has many impacts on our society. It has been studied that porn is addicting, on a similar level to cocaine. In the workplace and in homes, time and space is wasted on such things. This is a problem especially in marriages, when the guy gets ED from too much porn, and his wife just can't compete with the photoshopped girls on the computer. Most cases of divorce involve a porn addiction and the woman feeling less than the images her husband has on the computer. Many women are getting breast augmentations, fake tans, and botoxed lips in order to try to appeal to today's men, whom have pretty much endless access to porn. Let's not forget eating disorders, either. Women should not have to starve and throw up in order to feel like they're worth the time for men.

The workers in the pornography industry are damaged in many ways. They are degraded, and more times than not, end up with STDs, and desensitize themselves. That's just the voluntary workers, not counting the children and women in the sex slave trade, which add up to an estimated 12 million. Unfortunately, victims such as these never return to a so-called "normal life".

[Tailtiu]

But...I'm not addicted to porn and I certantly don't need it to get off.

[Revy the two hands]

I believe it is a sin, but some Christians don't. You get pretty much the same results as sex but with no one on top of you.

It could go either way. You're not establishing a physical connection with anybody else, and there's no chance of babies being born. So I disagree with it being pretty much the same thing.

However, since lust is a sin, self-pleasure is as well.

It doesn't matter if there's no physical connection, as you said lust is a sin and self pleasure and lust go hand in hand which is what I mean by the same thing. And having babies is not a sin, so I don't see how that is relevant.

Sexual urge, as I said, is nothing to be ashamed of. It is a considerable part of the human experience and a very healthy one. I partly blame certain Christen and Islamic denominations for even implying they way we are is somehow detestable.

How can you blame people for believing in something? If you don't believe in it then why do you care what people that have a religion think about it?

[Jade_Steel_Hawk]

Revy: You said it's pretty much the same thing, but I can't quite agree with you there.

Tailtiu: Many people do. Plus, the porn issue is primarily with guys.

[Dretlin]

One can argue both.

Self-pleasure with pornography has many impacts on our society. It has been studied that porn is addicting, on a similar level to cocaine. In the workplace and in homes, time and space is wasted on such things. This is a problem especially in marriages, when the guy gets ED from too much porn, and his wife just can't compete with the photoshopped girls on the computer. Most cases of divorce involve a porn addiction and the woman feeling less than the images her husband has on the computer. Many women are getting breast augmentations, fake tans, and botoxed lips in order to try to appeal to today's men, whom have pretty much endless access to porn. Let's not forget eating disorders, either. Women should not have to starve and throw up in order to feel like they're worth the time for men.

The workers in the pornography industry are damaged in many ways. They are degraded, and more times than not, end up with STDs, and desensitize themselves. That's just the voluntary workers, not counting the children and women in the sex slave trade, which add up to an estimated 12 million. Unfortunately, victims such as these never return to a so-called "normal life".

You think any of these monumental claims is due to self-pleasure? Men are not immune from feeling inadequate. Ironically the porn industry is far from fair. Women earn on average two and half times more than men for the same work.

Porn is just not this fantastic source of everything that is wrong in society. Society is just not that simple.

Self pleasure is harmless and this link you have between it and slavery is preposterous. Slavery is a different issue that is far more worthy of committed analysis. Unlike self pleasure.

Sexual urge, as I said, is nothing to be ashamed of. It is a considerable part of the human experience and a very healthy one. I partly blame certain Christen and Islamic denominations for even implying they way we are is somehow detestable.

How can you blame people for believing in something? If you don't believe in it then why do you care what people that have a religion think about it?

I care, because religion teaches you to be satisfied with not understanding the world. And creates ridicules links to natural human actions and apostasies them for no rational reason. You have seen you comment on homosexuality and you do not seem like a practitioner of it yourself.

You and I have the right to harbour opinions on any matter. What we do not have, is the right to not be offended.

[Shining Star]

One can argue both.

Self-pleasure with pornography has many impacts on our society. It has been studied that porn is addicting, on a similar level to cocaine. In the workplace and in homes, time and space is wasted on such things. This is a problem especially in marriages, when the guy gets ED from too much porn, and his wife just can't compete with the photoshopped girls on the computer. Most cases of divorce involve a porn addiction and the woman feeling less than the images her husband has on the computer. Many women are getting breast augmentations, fake tans, and botoxed lips in order to try to appeal to today's men, whom have pretty much endless access to porn. Let's not forget eating disorders, either. Women should not have to starve and throw up in order to feel like they're worth the time for men.

The workers in the pornography industry are damaged in many ways. They are degraded, and more times than not, end up with STDs, and desensitize themselves. That's just the voluntary workers, not counting the children and women in the sex slave trade, which add up to an estimated 12 million. Unfortunately, victims such as these never return to a so-called "normal life".

You think any of these monumental claims is due to self-pleasure? Men are not immune from feeling inadequate. Ironically the porn industry is far from fair. Women earn on average two and half times more than men for the same work.

Porn is just not this fantastic source of everything that is wrong in society. Society is just not that simple.

Self pleasure is harmless and this link you have between it and slavery is preposterous. Slavery is a different issue that is far more worthy of committed analysis. Unlike self pleasure.

Sexual urge, as I said, is nothing to be ashamed of. It is a considerable part of the human experience and a very healthy one. I partly blame certain Christen and Islamic denominations for even implying they way we are is somehow detestable.

How can you blame people for believing in something? If you don't believe in it then why do you care what people that have a religion think about it?

I care, because religion teaches you to be satisfied with not understanding the world. And creates ridicules links to natural human actions and apostasies them for no rational reason. You have seen you comment on homosexuality and you do not seem like a practitioner of it yourself.

You and I have the right to harbour opinions on any matter. What we do not have, is the right to not be offended.

That's not true about religion. We are supposed to be of the world but not in it. We're not sheltered.

[Jade_Steel_Hawk]

One can argue both.

Self-pleasure with pornography has many impacts on our society. It has been studied that porn is addicting, on a similar level to cocaine. In the workplace and in homes, time and space is wasted on such things. This is a problem especially in marriages, when the guy gets ED from too much porn, and his wife just can't compete with the photoshopped girls on the computer. Most cases of divorce involve a porn addiction and the woman feeling less than the images her husband has on the computer. Many women are getting breast augmentations, fake tans, and botoxed lips in order to try to appeal to today's men, whom have pretty much endless access to porn. Let's not forget eating disorders, either. Women should not have to starve and throw up in order to feel like they're worth the time for men.

The workers in the pornography industry are damaged in many ways. They are degraded, and more times than not, end up with STDs, and desensitize themselves. That's just the voluntary workers, not counting the children and women in the sex slave trade, which add up to an estimated 12 million. Unfortunately, victims such as these never return to a so-called "normal life".

You think any of these monumental claims is due to self-pleasure? Men are not immune from feeling inadequate. Ironically the porn industry is far from fair. Women earn on average two and half times more than men for the same work.

Porn is just not this fantastic source of everything that is wrong in society. Society is just not that simple.

Self pleasure is harmless and this link you have between it and slavery is preposterous. Slavery is a different issue that is far more worthy of committed analysis. Unlike self pleasure.

I don't care if the porn industry is fair or not. It's utterly disgusting. Women working for pornography get paid more because they are in higher demand. No matter how much they are paid, most of them have no self-value after doing that kind of work.

I never said porn was everything wrong with society. Sure it's had a terrible impact, but there are plenty of other issues that make it what it is. Don't twist what I say.

The link between porn and slavery? You said yourself that women are paid more, so to make things easier, why not kidnap them and make them work for nothing? The same thing with child porn. People that download that stuff are supporting things they do not know, just as some resources we use support war zones in third world countries.

You never even touched on the self-esteems on women nowadays.

[Dretlin]

I don't care if the porn industry is fair or not. It's utterly disgusting. Women working for pornography get paid more because they are in higher demand. No matter how much they are paid, most of them have no self-value after doing that kind of work.

I never said porn was everything wrong with society. Sure it's had a terrible impact, but there are plenty of other issues that make it what it is. Don't twist what I say.

The link between porn and slavery? You said yourself that women are paid more, so to make things easier, why not kidnap them and make them work for nothing? The same thing with child porn. People that download that stuff are supporting things they do not know, just as some resources we use support war zones in third world countries.

You never even touched on the self-esteems on women nowadays.

You need to ask them if they have "no self-value" after work. You are making a generalization based on what you think you would feel. They make decisions based on their moral compass, not yours.

You also need to ask the women and men involved in making porn if they would rather be paid or kidnapped, as you said. I do not quite understand what you are suggesting with that comment, as it seems rather ridiculous.

Everyone has "self-esteems" issues, that is a problem not exclusive to women and never has, or will be.

I digress: Self pleasure is not wrong in the slightest. Why some religions choose to stigmatize it and separate from the human experience still puzzles me.

[Jade_Steel_Hawk]

You need to ask them if they have "no self-value" after work. You are making a generalization based on what you think you would feel. They make decisions based on their moral compass, not yours.

You also need to ask the women and men involved in making porn if they would rather be paid or kidnapped, as you said. I do not quite understand what you are suggesting with that comment, as it seems rather ridiculous.

Everyone has "self-esteems" issues, that is a problem not exclusive to women and never has, or will be.

I digress: Self pleasure is not wrong in the slightest. Why some religions choose to stigmatize it and separate from the human experience still puzzles me.

I do know someone who was in that industry, and she considers herself "damaged goods". She doesn't feel worthy of a decent man. I'm sure she's not the only one that feels this way.

The ones who are kidnapped don't have a choice, why would you even bring that up?

Women never set such ridiculous standards for themselves before the widespread of pornography. It's sick what they will do to try to become thin.

I never even brought religion into this particular argument because it's ineffective for many of you. I can defend my side without quoting verses.

As for what you and Shining Star were talking about, yes, many Christians do shelter their families. I don't completely agree with it, but that's a sick, scary world out there. Unfortunately not everyone thinks that experience out there could be the best thing to strengthen their faith.

Also, religion aids greatly in understanding the world. Research about our past and studying the Bible match up, and I don't think that's just coincidence. Prove me wrong.

[Dretlin]

Prove me wrong.

Prove your right.

[Jade_Steel_Hawk]

You don't get evidence by proving an idea right, but by trying to prove it wrong and failing. Basic science.

[Dretlin]

You don't get evidence by proving an idea right, but by trying to prove it wrong and failing. Basic science.

Your draw your conclusions from evidence, not the other way round.

In the bible, you begin with your conclusions and try to claw evidence for it. Which is doomed to fail.