Absolute Anime

At first, this sounds like a ridiculously dumb question. Extrapolate a bit more and it's a very valid, somewhat controversial topic.

My friend, who is a music major of some sort, criticizes some of my musical tastes because of how simplistic it is. Whether it be a vocalist who sounds like he's having a seizure or a guitarist who is playing the same chords over and over again.

I used to argue, but then at further inspection, in some cases he's absolutely right. The genre we were criticizing was metal, but I'm sure it's valid in any line of music.

My question is, does a musician or band need to have extraordinary talent to have good music, or does it go further, into rhythm, stress, pitch...

Sure, we all know having talent makes a good musician, but what about the other way around?

I don't think they need alot of talent to be good, alot of rock band guitarists only use 1 or 2 strings and they are good and fun to listen to

Slash wrote:At first, this sounds like a ridiculously dumb question. Extrapolate a bit more and it's a very valid, somewhat controversial topic.

My friend, who is a music major of some sort, criticizes some of my musical tastes because of how simplistic it is. Whether it be a vocalist who sounds like he's having a seizure or a guitarist who is playing the same chords over and over again.

I used to argue, but then at further inspection, in some cases he's absolutely right. The genre we were criticizing was metal, but I'm sure it's valid in any line of music.

My question is, does a musician or band need to have extraordinary talent to have good music, or does it go further, into rhythm, stress, pitch...

Sure, we all know having talent makes a good musician, but what about the other way around?

You sir (slashs friend) are completly wrong!

Metal is a very misunderstood genre, I love metal! Well I love music in general. Simplistic? That is a pathetic excuse from somebody who can not analyze music. The real genius of music is taking those simple things and turning them into some extraordinary.

"The same chords over and over again"? Where does he think punk come from? The idea was to be sloppy, at the time for musical and sociel reasons. Then you look at guys like Satriani. Obsessed with being accurate.

Both the differ between their stlyes but, this can not mean you overlook their choice to play that way.

Look at bands like The Shaggs, they are aweful! But somehow its amazing!

Then again some people are just awful.

Each man/women to their own, but your friend sounds like metal went straight over his head. Good or bad music dosent exist, its your taste that matters.

O.o Very well said. That's what I tried to say to him, only less convincing and no hard facts to back up my case. Okay, maybe my only retaliation was saying he didn't understand and making fun of him for liking Indie (I like indie too, but that's his Achilles Heel).

In a sense, taking the ordinary and making it work musically is a talent all in itself. It might not be the direct talent that people associate with musicians, but it's every bit as important.

On that note, I leave a motivational poster that may, or may not, agree with my statement.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2983 ... winxl7.jpg

Nope, just look at MCR. Fnardy fnar fnar

Slash wrote:My friend, who is a music major of some sort, criticizes some of my musical tastes because of how simplistic it is.

Simplistic as in the artists use major and minor keys only? Simple chord patterns and time signatures like - 4/4time etc?

Slash wrote:Whether it be a vocalist who sounds like he's having a seizure or a guitarist who is playing the same chords over and over again.

Same chords over and other again? Does this guy criticize AC/DC, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Green Day(i hope he does), most blues music and a million other bands?

Slash wrote:The genre we were criticizing was metal, but I'm sure it's valid in any line of music.

I'm guessing you were bagging more the vocalist than the guitar work if its metal. Unless your talking about Korn or somehting annoying. Just whack it in drop D and pump out some power chords. actually. if u were talking about Korn, youd be bagging the sh*t out of both the vocals and guitar lol. atleast i hope :s

Slash wrote:My question is, does a musician or band need to have extraordinary talent to have good music, or does it go further, into rhythm, stress, pitch...

Sure, we all know having talent makes a good musician, but what about the other way around?

Anyway I hope this answers your question for you - form my point of view anyway...

talent as in a natural aptitude for an instrument doesn't seem to really exist - with the exception of those extraordinary 7 year old mozarts.

I think just about everyone has the potential to do well on an instrument/vocal whatever - this potential sorta varies on the motivation they have. As practice makes perfect.

Most documentaries I see on guitarists claim they played roughly between 9 - 11 hours a day. Apparently Slash played for 11 hours a day. Paul Gilbert apparently did too - or so he claims. Eric Clapton made it his goal to play every blues lick he ever heard. Jimi Hendrix played for hours and hours, even trying to replicate noises from tv adds and stuff. anyway

if a musician has style, originality, is competent at whatever they do...they're probably a good musician!

did i go off track? this post is too longg -_-

Not real sure what manner he meant in 'simplistic.' He was babbling off many a music terms, and my own ignorance is my source of happiness so I just continued watching TV during his rant.

I do know the whole topic was brought up whenever I dared to mention All That Remains, who I had mentioned all members have some serious talent.

Are arguments were mostly about guitarists, but vocalists did come into play later on. Bassists and Drummers were left for the dead somewhere, cuz they were never mentioned. I stated that I thought that metal was where the real talented guitarists were, usually with faster and more complex solos. Remember though, I know nothing about the dynamics of music, I just love listening >.<

And shall I say, Slash is a god walking amongst mere mortals. I don't believe Velvet Revolver is letting him shine whatsoever. IMO we need to pull him outta that dead-end trap and get him somewhere he can show his true colors.

At any rate, very good insight JC. I take it you have either studied/are in the process of studying music, or are very much into the dynamics. Very nice.

That sheet music is possible, cuz Aphex Twin dominates everyone and even eats babies.

Mozart, Beethoven, Bach are no doubt the greatest musicians. Unfortunately I'm not sure if we'll ever get to see more modern musicians achieve even the slightest of praise that they've gotten. Pioneers always reap the benefits. Absolutely they deserve it, but IMO modern musicians need to work that much harder if they want to be any sort of legend. Hendrix was probably the most recent...I'm not sure if I'd put Slash on the same peg, but he's getting there. You just don't hear about breakthroughs like Beethoven achieved anymore. Whether it was because he was one in a lifetime, or his shadow casts over anything similar, I'm not sure. This is just a mindless rant on why I think music is somewhat misunderstood.

Slash wrote:I stated that I thought that metal was where the real talented guitarists were, usually with faster and more complex solos. Remember though, I know nothing about the dynamics of music, I just love listening >.<

I'm a guitarist myself, and I started off playing metal and Rock. With time the 16th notes came along, the sweep picking, economic picking, double tapping, string skipping, pinch harmonics and other metal style techniques etc. I'm quite competent at all of these now. And can play even the likes of Paul Gilbert, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Marty Friedman.
Here's a youtube clip to show you one of the guys I'm talking about as they are probably just useless names to you.

To carry on with my story - So I'm quite the technical metal player (and a boastful borris at that) however now I enjoy a lot of acoustic and more mellow music. And obviously I want to play whatever it is I like, and I'm telling you now - Despite the fact I can play all that metal - I find playing a lot of acoustic stuff very hard. It's like a completely different instrument, with completely different techniques.

Here's an example. Andee Mckee's 'Drifting'

Now I've shown you two completely different styles of guitar music, and to play them they both have overwhelming technical difficulties. The moral of the story is, each style of guitar play will have a peak of difficulty. Some acoustic is really easy to play, so is some metal, yet some is really hard. But the hardest music of all to play - is whatever your not used too.

And just to put it out there, I think Jazz is - on average probably the most technical music.

But to try and bring this all back to what we were originally talking about - Technical skill is one form of talent. Creativity, originality, sounding good - is another. Jimi Hendrix is renowned as the best guitarist the world has ever seen. Yet I doubt he could have played the Paul Gilbert song I posted earlier, or the Andee Mckee song.

I hope you took the time to read all this and watch the clips.

oh, and Slash. Do you play guitar?

I would say I'm a wannabe guitarist, but that sounds negative and I don't really strive for guitar greatness. I do play, have a B.C. Rich Warlock. As you can already see, I have literally no musical background. I can't read sheet music, I don't write music, and it doesn't really bother me. I got a guitar just because I wanted to try my hand in a musical instrument. It will be my first, and last endeavor in such. I play tabs, and I'm lame to semi-mediocre. It's all for fun though. I don't go around claiming to have any kind of skills whatsoever.

Both of those links were absolutely amazing. The Andee Mckee one totally blew me away, as I've never actually seen anything like that done before. My roommate was watching it with me, and he suggested I check out Erik Mongrain, who was also really cool.

I have to ask, is Paul Gilbert in any band, or is it all just instrumental? The song you posted was one hell of a catchy tune, and would love to hear it put to some vocals. I could easily look it up, but I'm too lazy and it gives us basis for conversation.

Ever hear of Matthew Bellamy (Muse) before? He's an awesome guitar player, all linear stuff but is amazing nonetheless

Paul Gilbert is in a band called Racer X - thats the band you just watched perform. To be honest I haven't looked into them too far, and only know a few songs which are all instrumentals. I have seen Paul Gilbert play acoustic and sing before, however I think that was a one off solo performance. I don't really know much more I'm afraid.

I've heard of Muse. Haven't listened to a lot of their music but I do recall some really nice piano work in a few of their songs. dont think it was as cool as the piano intro for November Rain though...

I'm guessing you play a lot of guns n roses?

I play a fair hand of GNR songs, or would be more accurate to say I try. Don't Cry, Patience and Knockin' on Heavens Door I do fairly well in.

More than GNR though, I play a lot of Rancid. Not exactly known for their guitar, but I love Rancid. most of their stuff is fairly easy too, so just at my level.

Heck naw xD I mean look at some of the crud that is bein' produced now a days xD All it's becomin' is a giant popularity contest xD I mean how else would this Soulda Boy shiz be as big as it is if it wasn't xD.

S.S. Bunneh wrote:Heck naw xD I mean look at some of the crud that is bein' produced now a days xD All it's becomin' is a giant popularity contest xD I mean how else would this Soulda Boy shiz be as big as it is if it wasn't xD.

all that says is you dont need to be talented to be a bad muso