Absolute Anime

in your opinions is waterboarding a captured prisoner legal or is it torture??

Explain your answer.

Personally I think the USA is playing a double standard. After ww2 my countrymen were branded as war criminals for waterboarding prisoners of war, yet it seems that the USA government seems to think they are exampt. Even Obama himself is protecting the people who performed the waterboarding. If these people don't suffer the same penalties we did then I believe that the Japanese who were branded and dishonored as war criminals for waterboarding should be removed from the list of war criminals.

Aoi Sakuraba wrote:in your opinions is waterboarding a captured prisoner legal or is it torture??

Explain your answer.

Personally I think the USA is playing a double standard. After ww2 my countrymen were branded as war criminals for waterboarding prisoners of war, yet it seems that the USA government seems to think they are exampt. Even Obama himself is protecting the people who performed the waterboarding. If these people don't suffer the same penalties we did then I believe that the Japanese who were branded and dishonored as war criminals for waterboarding should be removed from the list of war criminals.

Well, the imperial army of the 1930s and early 40s had an extensive catalogue of human rights abuses (some of which are nothing short of horror). I do not believe it is a fair comparison.

I think it can be summed up that the mistakes of the past should not be repeated. And of course, torture is never justifiable.

+:D.Ř.Ę.Ŧ.Ļ.Ĭ .N:+ wrote:Well, the imperial army of the 1930s and early 40s had an extensive catalogue of human rights abuses (some of which are nothing short of horror). I do not believe it is a fair comparison.

I think it can be summed up that the mistakes of the past should not be repeated. And of course, torture is never justifiable.

That doesn't answer my question Dret. Is waterboarding torture or is it a legal interrogation technique?? This isn't about what my country may or may have not done that displeases you dretlin, we have already had this conversation on msn and you've pretty much made your position clear on your view of history, I disagree with alot of those so called facts but history is written by the winners of war not the losers. anyway lets get back on topic.

Is waterboarding a prisoner to get intelligence from him torture or is it a legal interrogation technique??

If the US government come back and says waterboarding is a legal interrogation technique then I believe the people who waterboarded prisoners in ww2 should be taken off the war criminals list. If it comes back that it is torture then I believe all of the CIA operatives that carried out the waterboarding and all of the politicians that knew about it should be added to the war criminals list. You cant call it a war crime for 1 set of people and not for another set.

My opinion is this, if it was deemed to be torture back in ww2 then it should still be torture today. But for some reason I just cant see the USA inditing half of congress and a good majority of the CIA on war crimes......it just isn't gonna happen. So in all fairness the names added in ww2 for waterboarding should be struck from the list.

+:D.Ř.Ę.Ŧ.Ļ.Ĭ .N:+ wrote: And of course, torture is never justifiable.

Taking names of a list would imply to future generations that japan did not waterboard. Which would be a betrayal of our duty to leave history intact for our ancestors.

Aoi Sakuraba wrote:I think the USA is playing a double standard

Unfortunately, that is how they operate. Even within constitutional provisions...

And, in the logic of Brian Tamanaha....

Brian Tamanaha. wrote: 1. "Waterboarding is torture" (President Obama statement a week ago, world opinion)

2. "We waterboarded three prisoners" (statements by CIA, Cheney, Yoo, etc.)

3. "We did not torture prisoners." (statements by Bush, Rice, etc.)

No one disputes number 2, so number 1 is wrong or number 3 is wrong. You decide.

Aoi Sakuraba wrote:
I disagree with alot of those so called facts but history is written by the winners of war not the losers. anyway lets get back on topic.

Selective listening. A very strong indicator of nationalism. Just choose not to believe the things about your country you don't want to hear. The Japanese government allied themselves with the Nazis during WWII. I wouldn't put torture ((read: stuff much worse than waterboarding)) past them during that time.

That said, yes, Waterboarding IS torture, and should NEVER be used in interrogations. The US also has a long history of double standards, and torturing prisoners. It's no secret.

Apostrophe wrote:Selective listening. A very strong indicator of nationalism.

the way you say that it sounds like you think Nationalism is a bad thing?? Since when has Patriotism been a bad thing??

Nationalism by definition:

Nationalism - Patriotism love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it
Nationalism - An advocate of national independence of or a strong national government
Nationalism - Close identification with the concerns of a particular country or nation
Nationalism - Loyalty to one's own nation and the practice of putting the interests of that nation before all other nations

So I guess yea I'm a nationalist and proud to be one.

Nationalism is a selfish, arrogant, narrow-minded view that your country is better than everyone elses and the world should put your needs first. Nationalism causes wars. See: WWII
I'd gladly sacrifice all the good that 'pride' in one's country has done if it meant also getting rid of the bad. What would be good is willingness to sacrifice for the good of mankind, not the good of a single country.

Apostrophe wrote:Nationalism is a selfish, arrogant, narrow-minded view that your country is better than everyone elses and the world should put your needs first. Nationalism causes wars. See: WWII
I'd gladly sacrifice all the good that 'pride' in one's country has done if it meant also getting rid of the bad. What would be good is willingness to sacrifice for the good of mankind, not the good of a single country.

While I do whole heartedly agree with this post, I would add that extreme nationalism is fascism. Even moderate nationalism is on a slippery slop that can all too often lead to the fascism.

maybe perhaps we can all get back on topic of waterboarding???

+:D.Ř.Ę.Ŧ.Ļ.Ĭ .N:+ wrote:

Apostrophe wrote: <stuff>

While I do whole heartedly agree with this post, I would add that extreme nationalism is fascism. Even moderate nationalism is on a slippery slop that can all too often lead to the fascism.

^This
Source: Nazi Germany.

As for waterboarding; it's torture, no doubt. Not a valid interrogation technique whatsoever.
/thread