Prop 8 Cases

[Boxcar Bob]

I cannot argue with you on this any further - I know exactly where this is going, a battle of legalism to get us further away from the actual issue. You might think of yourself as a Christian, but you have proven you're not actually a follower of Jesus, and you have definitely proved you are not born again. Until you step past your intellectualism and actually find faith, like the Bible says, it will be impossible for you to please God. No amount of research is going to clearly reveal the Word to you, and until you actually accept Jesus's free gift of salvation, you will only have a "cursory, superficial understanding of God's word."

Unfortunetly, you have fallen into the trap of distorting the word of God (which is indeed infallable, as it was written by God through men, not by men alone - 2 Tim 3:16) into what you want it say, rather than accepting the truth as it is. But this thread alone is a perfect picture of the deception Satan has used in this nation to make everyone believe that tolerance at all costs is the proper attitude, even when it does clearly go against God's word. None of your arguments convinced me of anything (perhaps because I actually have the Holy Spirit living within me).

God designed man to be united to his wife (woman) and to become one flesh. He did not design man to be with man, or woman to be with woman, or people to pursue love with anyone or anything they desire. Homosexual marriage should not be legal.

(And seriously, I can't emphasize being born again enough. If you had known me a few years back before I found Christ, I'd be laughing and vomiting at what I just wrote, but now I know the truth. Jesus transforms a bitter bisexual sadomasochist like me into someone with peace, joy, and eternal life? And some people try to tell me He's not even real? Ahahahahaha!)

It's arguments like this that makes so many people resent Christianity.

It's guys like this that make me wonder about Christianity.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/
http://www.godhatessweden.com/
http://www.godhatesamerica.com/

[Gaming Goddess]

When I first came across those sites, I thought they were jokes. Some people are so screwed up

[Mista Cola]

Unfortunetly, you have fallen into the trap of distorting the word of God (which is indeed infallable, as it was written by God through men, not by men alone - 2 Tim 3:16) into what you want it say, rather than accepting the truth as it is.

Lol, distorting scripture? You pick and choose which verses to quote and ignore others to justify your standpoint... You selectively.. Y'know what, I'm not even gonna bother. ; /

[Boxcar Bob]

When I first came across those sites, I thought they were jokes. Some people are so screwed up

I never thought I'd get sick of the word 'fa\g' but whaddaya know?

[The Rage]

Personally, I hope that someday gay couples will be allowed to legally claim union and receive their marriage benefits.

[Athos]

Unfortunetly, you have fallen into the trap of distorting the word of God (which is indeed infallable, as it was written by God through men, not by men alone - 2 Tim 3:16) into what you want it say, rather than accepting the truth as it is.

Lol, distorting scripture? You pick and choose which verses to quote and ignore others to justify your standpoint... You selectively.. Y'know what, I'm not even gonna bother. ; /

I think you have it the other way around, but I'll stop the discussion here. You're already getting off topic. I made this thread to water down what is going on in the California Supreme Court for those of us who are indeed interested, and it better stay this way. If you want to continue the debate, do it via PM.


Rage: Yeah, I just hope the Court overturns it's previous ruling for In Re Marriage Cases. If the Court could somehow restore Prop 22, then it wouldn't be an issue.

[Raoul Duke]

Unfortunetly, you have fallen into the trap of distorting the word of God (which is indeed infallable, as it was written by God through men, not by men alone.

You have fallen into the trap of circular logic. "What is written in the Bible is true because it says so in the Bible."

(And seriously, I can't emphasize being born again enough. If you had known me a few years back before I found Christ, I'd be laughing and vomiting at what I just wrote, but now I know the truth. Jesus transforms a bitter bisexual sadomasochist like me into someone with peace, joy, and eternal life? And some people try to tell me He's not even real? Ahahahahaha!)

I have this ability for critical perception. What you have actually said is: "I have convinced myself that God is real, and *assumes incredulous tone* some people try to tell me he isn't real! HAHAHAHA!"

Yes.


yaawwwwwwn

[Athos]

And any ethical intellectual wouldn't argue over religion.

[Twilight Night Wolf]

And any ethical intellectual wouldn't argue over religion.

True. In the end nobody wins in such arguments.

[Mista Cola]

I think he was being just derisive.

My mistake was responding to Dreams' ad hominems, thus inciting her to reprobate the legitimacy of my faith (Haha). IMO, having the need to elevate oneself to the point of passing moral judgment on others is a telltale sign of hypocrisy.

I should have simply stated my purely secular arguments (which she failed to disprove without involving religion) and stayed on topic that way.

Anyway, back on topic: If Prop 8 wasn't passed, what effects will it have on children in public schools? I see a lot of proponents utilizing this as one of their central arguments. I doubt it would be too significant since parents in California are given the option to withdraw their children from any lecturing that conflicts with their religion.

[Raoul Duke]

And any ethical intellectual wouldn't argue over religion.

Perhaps in a Nazi society in which the Nazis ensured that no person ventured into discussion of a topic that was only relevant in the 'core-periphery' as opposed to the 'absolute core'

You've got to be kidding me Athos. We should have a discussion elsewhere about the merits of discussing everything and the fact that this is EXACTLY what a true intellectual does. Especially ethical ones. I'll make my first simple point here:

eth·i·cal (th-kl)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or dealing with ethics.
2. Being in accordance with the accepted principles of right and wrong that govern the conduct of a profession.

In the realm of the intellectual, the principles are those of knowledge and inquisition. Not a biased, privileged acquisition and exploration. It is ethical to explore all aspects.

I think you have your moderator hat on today, as opposed to the ethical intellectual hat, which is perhaps, a little ....dusty?


GHETTO EDIT: for tautology

[Athos]

As much as I like to debate, I personally don't argue about religion because you can't prove or disprove it, and it's something that is very sacred to people. It's fine to disagree and talk about it, but as I've said before, this thread isn't the place to do so. I only made this thread to keep people informed about what's going on.

[Raoul Duke]

As much as I like to debate, I personally don't argue about religion because you can't prove or disprove it, and it's something that is very sacred to people. It's fine to disagree and talk about it, but as I've said before, this thread isn't the place to do so. I only made this thread to keep people informed about what's going on.

As well as your view about "ethical intellectuals" actually being anti-intellectual, to recourse by citing time/place factors is intellectual cowardice.

Regardless, there are significant reasons why one should talk about religion, and significant logical proofs that can be presented with significant consequences for believers. These should be discussed elsewhere. I would like to discuss them with you.

[Raoul Duke]

Lol. I'm a real bastard aren't I? Let's play, Athos....

[Boxcar Bob]

The hunt is on eh Locke?

[Hardcore]

Dreams, you're apparently a Christian. Yet you're judging Mista Cola by questioning, no.. telling him, being blunt here, that he's a fake Christian?

Hypocrite <333